#13729: "Accidental discards after a 10 is played"
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• Por favor, copia/pega el mensaje de error que ves en tu pantalla, si hay alguno.
I have accidentally discarded the most important card in my hand a couple times and have seen several others do the same after a 10 is played. The trash icon just isn't quite obvious enough. I believe it would be a better experience if discard buttons were added for each of the cards to provide a bit more awareness. That or somehow make that discard a two-click choice.• Por favor, explica lo que querías hacer, lo que hiciste y lo que pasó
• ¿Qué navegador estás usando?
Google Chrome v77
• Por favor, copia/pega el texto mostrado en inglés en lugar de en tu idioma. Si tienes una captura de este error (buena práctica), puedes usar Imgur.com para subirla y copiar/pegar el enlace aquí.
I have accidentally discarded the most important card in my hand a couple times and have seen several others do the same after a 10 is played. The trash icon just isn't quite obvious enough. I believe it would be a better experience if discard buttons were added for each of the cards to provide a bit more awareness. That or somehow make that discard a two-click choice.• ¿Está este texto disponible en el sistema de traducción? Si es así, ¿ha sido traducido hace más de 24 horas?
• ¿Qué navegador estás usando?
Google Chrome v77
• Por favor explica tu sugerencia de manera precisa y concisa para que sea lo más fácil posible entender lo que quieres decir.
I have accidentally discarded the most important card in my hand a couple times and have seen several others do the same after a 10 is played. The trash icon just isn't quite obvious enough. I believe it would be a better experience if discard buttons were added for each of the cards to provide a bit more awareness. That or somehow make that discard a two-click choice.• ¿Qué navegador estás usando?
Google Chrome v77
• ¿Qué había en la pantalla cuando se quedó bloqueado? (¿mensaje de error?, ¿pantalla en blanco?, ¿una parte de la interfaz del juego?)
I have accidentally discarded the most important card in my hand a couple times and have seen several others do the same after a 10 is played. The trash icon just isn't quite obvious enough. I believe it would be a better experience if discard buttons were added for each of the cards to provide a bit more awareness. That or somehow make that discard a two-click choice.• ¿Qué navegador estás usando?
Google Chrome v77
• ¿Qué parte de las reglas no se ha respetado en la adaptación de BGA?
I have accidentally discarded the most important card in my hand a couple times and have seen several others do the same after a 10 is played. The trash icon just isn't quite obvious enough. I believe it would be a better experience if discard buttons were added for each of the cards to provide a bit more awareness. That or somehow make that discard a two-click choice.• ¿La infracción de las reglas es visible en la repetición de la partida? Si es así, ¿en qué jugada?
• ¿Qué navegador estás usando?
Google Chrome v77
• ¿Qué acción de juego querías realizar?
I have accidentally discarded the most important card in my hand a couple times and have seen several others do the same after a 10 is played. The trash icon just isn't quite obvious enough. I believe it would be a better experience if discard buttons were added for each of the cards to provide a bit more awareness. That or somehow make that discard a two-click choice.• ¿Qué es lo que trataste de hacer para activar esta acción del juego?
• ¿Qué sucedió cuando lo hiciste (el mensaje de error, mensaje en la barra de estado del juego, ...)?
• ¿Qué navegador estás usando?
Google Chrome v77
• ¿En qué etapa de la partida ocurrió el problema (cuál era la instrucción actual del juego)?
I have accidentally discarded the most important card in my hand a couple times and have seen several others do the same after a 10 is played. The trash icon just isn't quite obvious enough. I believe it would be a better experience if discard buttons were added for each of the cards to provide a bit more awareness. That or somehow make that discard a two-click choice.• ¿Qué sucedió cuando trataste de hacer una acción de juego (mensaje de error, mensaje en la barra de estado del juego, ...)?
• ¿Qué navegador estás usando?
Google Chrome v77
• Por favor, describe el problema de visualización. Si tienes una captura de este error (buena práctica), puedes usar Imgur.com para subirla y copiar/pegar el enlace aquí.
I have accidentally discarded the most important card in my hand a couple times and have seen several others do the same after a 10 is played. The trash icon just isn't quite obvious enough. I believe it would be a better experience if discard buttons were added for each of the cards to provide a bit more awareness. That or somehow make that discard a two-click choice.• ¿Qué navegador estás usando?
Google Chrome v77
• Por favor, copia/pega el texto mostrado en inglés en lugar de en tu idioma. Si tienes una captura de este error (buena práctica), puedes usar Imgur.com para subirla y copiar/pegar el enlace aquí.
I have accidentally discarded the most important card in my hand a couple times and have seen several others do the same after a 10 is played. The trash icon just isn't quite obvious enough. I believe it would be a better experience if discard buttons were added for each of the cards to provide a bit more awareness. That or somehow make that discard a two-click choice.• ¿Está este texto disponible en el sistema de traducción? Si es así, ¿ha sido traducido hace más de 24 horas?
• ¿Qué navegador estás usando?
Google Chrome v77
• Por favor explica tu sugerencia de manera precisa y concisa para que sea lo más fácil posible entender lo que quieres decir.
I have accidentally discarded the most important card in my hand a couple times and have seen several others do the same after a 10 is played. The trash icon just isn't quite obvious enough. I believe it would be a better experience if discard buttons were added for each of the cards to provide a bit more awareness. That or somehow make that discard a two-click choice.• ¿Qué navegador estás usando?
Google Chrome v77
Historial de informes
We all did that mistake (I did it too, and so did all beta-testeurs :P ), playing too fast. In some other games, that can be annoying too.
The policy in BGA on the matter is not to matronize the players who must learn by themselves. The responsability of playing fast and potentially making a mistakes lays on the player, not the game.
So I won't do anything about that.
When you get more experience on this game, you will soon not do that mistake again, trust me :)
Thanks!
Woodruff
BGA dev policy allows for confirmation dialogs in important states, and this is a good place for one. You spend a lot of ressources for confirmations when a pawn eats pawns of its own team; I think the "10-discard confirmation" is even more important
Still, one confirmation every 13 cards is too much (because there are 4 tens in a deck of 52) is too much and would break the fluidity of the game. And as a rule of thumb, confirmation dialogs need to be used scarcely.
Whereas a confirmation for self eating or teammate eating is justified because it does not occur that much.
To sum that up, the drawback of this loss of time on each game would not be compensated with the reduced amount of mistakes done by the players.
I cannot content everybody so I need to do some compromises like this... Sorry.
Thanks for your understanding.
Wood
Car, le problème principal ne réside absolument pas en une erreur de choix de la carte à défausser : les joueurs défaussent une carte alors qu'il croyaient sélectionner une carte pour jouer comme lors d'un tour normal. Parce les icônes placées au-dessus des cartes ne sont ni visibles, ni compréhensibles. Quand j'ai vu l'icône censée représenter une poubelle pour la première fois, j'ai pensé qu'il pouvait s'agir soit d'un temple, soit du nombre III en chiffres romains, et je l'ai ignorée puisque je n'en comprenais pas la signification.
Quand c'est son tour de jouer, un joueur pense qu'il peut sélectionner une carte en toute sécurité, puisque normalement cette sélection peut toujours être annulée. En cas de défausse par l'effet d'un Dix, il n'y a pas de sélection, la carte part directement à la défausse au premier clic : c'est tout à fait anormal et non cohérent avec le reste de l'interface. Ce qui fait qu'un joueur peut voir partir la carte qu'il comptait jouer ; ce qui peut être désastreux si cette carte était son seul Roi ou As, et que le joueur n'a aucun pion en jeu.
Une confirmation de la carte à défausser me me paraît donc incontournable. Cette confirmation pourrait consister dans un deuxième clic sur la carte mise en évidence à l'issue du premier clic. Le joueur peut donc toujours sélectionner une autre carte à défausser en l'absence de confirmation, et la perte de temps pour effectuer le deuxième clic est totalement négligeable en regard des erreurs qui seront ainsi évitées.
Il faut prendre son temps et ne pas jouer en mode automatique c'est tout.
Défausser une carte ou la jouer, ce n'est pas pareil, comme c'est le cas en IRL. Il ne faut pas miser sur le fait qu'on va jouer forcément.
La machine ne doit pas remplacer le cerveau de celui qui l'utilise :P
Pour tous les autres coups, lorsque nous choisissons une carte, il reste une étape de "validation" lorsque nous choisissons ensuite le pion, puis validons sa case d'arrivée.
Ne pourrait-on pas valider la carte défaussée après un 10 en ayant à cliquer sur le tas de cartes au centre du plateau?
Je joue avec des amis chaque semaine, et c'est vraiment LE point faible du jeu. Nous avons même pris la décision entre nous d'annoncer à l'avance lorsque nous allons jouer un dix pour que le joueur suivant ne joue pas trop vite. Malgré cela, par habitude de jeu, il arrive que nous oublions de l'annoncer à voix haute et qu'un joueur se fasse quand même avoir.
Valider une carte après un 10, comme nous avons la possibilité de valider n'importe quel action du jeu, ne me paraît donc pas forcément anormal: pour reprendre une phrase plus haut "Quand c'est son tour de jouer, un joueur pense qu'il peut sélectionner une carte en toute sécurité, puisque normalement cette sélection peut toujours être annulée. "
But in this case it really just doesn't apply, and blaming it on people not paying attention and playing too fast is honestly a rather bad argument here.
The problem here isn't that you're playing too fast. The problem is that it's an action that otherwise wouldn't have resulted in any move at all. Any other turn you can go ahead and click the card you think you'll want to use while at the same time thinking about your move. You can be thinking very carefully about every move you make and still make this mistake, because you were simply still looking at what your options are.
And, you say you want to keep the confirmation out to keep the fluidity of the game going, but in doing so, are penalizing players who actually are trying to keep the pace up and play fast.
For me at least, and I'm sure it's the same for plenty of other players. Not having the confirmation box breaks the fluidity of the game way more than the box itself would. Having fluidity to a game relies on players knowing instinctively how the interface works and how it responds to their actions. Having it respond differently in different situations means players can no longer rely on instincts and muscle memory to make their turns, breaking that fluidity, not adding to it.
Now, instead of one occasional extra click, I'm having to double check that I'm not accidentally discarding on every single turn before I can continue to think about my move. Taking me out of the game and my thought process, making my thinking time for every move significantly longer.
This is especially true in cases where I already know what my next move will be before the previous player had played their turn. Instead of multitasking and getting my own turn halfway started while I'm looking at what the previous player did, I'm having to stop in my tracks and double check for fear of a mistake.
I know what card I want to click, I know where it's located on the screen, the only reason I have to even look at my cards directly before starting my turn is because on some few turns there might be these tiny markers that would cause me to accidentally discard.
It's not that you would be adding a confirmation step to the 10s. It's that now, every move has a confirmation step EXCEPT the discards. Making it unfair and less fun to play for not just less experienced players, but also people trying to play fast, as well as the more casual players who might not have their full attention on the game at all times (which is a significant group who should be taken into consideration for a place like this).
If you don't want to add a confirmation box, and the very least make the fact that you're discarding more easily visible. Enough that it is obvious in a quick glance, instead of having to actually look for the markers to check.
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